Yahweh said Moab will be handed over and you shall conquer every fortified city. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. An unmistakable linguistic parallel with the Hebrew text underlying the Septuagint reading was thus discovered, one that prompted many scholars to accept the Septuagintal reading on logical and philological grounds--God (El Elyon in Deut. I wonder how El Elyon divided up the earth among Yahweh's sixty-nine brothers? Why would he respond to a Moabite human sacrifice, break his own prophecy of victory, and force his own armies into retreat? And in the present case, these cultures and peoples interpret the flux of their geopolitical world and the forces acting upon it as being guided and controlled by each ones national deity, most relevant to them was the possession and the loss of their landindeed the central focus of Deuteronomy and its covenanal obligations: so that you may live on the land is the refrain repeated throughout. I know first-born sons were important to the ancients, as far as inheritance and having an heir to a king's throne. Chemosh, ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god. [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." Like the Israelite god Yahweh, he had punished his people by allowing neighboring tribes or nations to subjugate them. You sure you have the right flair? Later still, the tradition of monotheism emerged, in which other gods were regarded either as non-existent "false" deities, or as demons masquerading as God. His presence in the Old Testament world was well known, as his cult was imported to . (Gen 2:4b vs Gen 14:19), #327. Learn Religions, Nov. 12, 2021, learnreligions.com/chemosh-lord-of-the-moabites-117630. The Israelites were driven back by divine wrath opposing their gods will. A plural of majesty, the term Elohimthough sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeim), and the Messiahis usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and . We saw in previous entries (Contradictions #364-369) that the author of Deuteronomy took liberties in having his Moses renarrate the Edom event, now presenting the Edomites as amicable toward their Israelite brethren and allowing them to pass through their territory and to procure food and drink. ", http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm. Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. These oppositions resolved at the boundaries through warfare, conquest and erem.7 . However, the theme of promised land to a people by that peoples deity was a commonplace among the geopolitical and literary landscape of the ancient Near Eastern world. How many Israelites left Egypt during the Exodus: 600,000 OR 625,550? If anyone's conclusions don't hold water it's yours. Understanding our biblical texts as suchas they truly are!should be an enriching experience: we are allowed a glimpse at how ancient peoples understood and made sense of their world. Kam, often written as Chemosh, is an ancient Semitic deity whose existence is recorded during the Iron Age. Learn Religions. That is each nationIsraelite, Babylonian, Egyptian, Moabite, etc.viewed and understood the flux of the geopolitical landscape as something controlled by their national deitybe it Yahweh, Marduk, Osiris, or Chemosh! ( , ) ". Only later, when subsequent biblical authors began to embrace monotheism, were the original writings suppressed. Chemosh. Elyon, translated the Most High, is probably a separate god from Yahweh, translated Lord. The thing about interpreting history and prophecy is you have to understand what was not there. [3] Apologetics So we see that this idea of a god decreeing land to his people and conversely having another nation conquer and take away that promised land because of the peoples disobedience toward their god was also a common theological and literary perspective to understanding the vicissitudes (i.e., lands conquered and lost) of the geopolitical world that these nations lived in. (Ex 21:12-24 vs Matt 5:39). If so, Chemosh probably stood in the position of Asthar's husband, as did El to Asherah and Baal to Astarte. So the Bible has lied, do you not believe Yahwey was defeated by Chemosh? Mesha vs. Omri and "his son") and god (Chemosh vs. Yahweh). King Mesha of Moab erected the Moabite Stone to his god Chemosh to commemorate Mesha's breaking of Israel's domination, which, he says, had lasted 40 years and was allowed by Chemosh because he was "angry with his land." This revolt of Moab is usually considered to be related to the events recorded in the third chapter of 2 Kings. 2 Kings 3:27 27 Then he (Mesha, king of the Moabites who worshiped Chemosh) took his firstborn son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. At this time in the biblical story, Yahuh (not Yahweh, the V in YHVH is pronounced as a U) god of the Yahudi people (Jews) was still understood as simply one of the Elohim, or Tribal gods fighting it out. Support the show with bitcoin: fbn@getalby.com (Deut 2:9-23 vs Num 20-21), #3. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I have given Ar to the descendants of Lot as a possession." Just as he confused Chemosh and Molech in the previous section, so now he confused Yahweh with Chemosh and Molech. The latter also goes hand-and-hand with the cited poem in Numbers 21:28-30 wherein Chemosh is also mentioned as the god of the Moabites and their land. Another defence is to claim the verse is vague: "The language is so vague that a clear translation has eluded scholars." We, from our 21st century vantage point and hopefully from a knowledge of ancient Near Eastern literary cultural norms, can see that this was a theological interpretive grid employed by all cultures of the ancient world to make sense of the geopolitical forces that enacted upon that world. Calvinism may have a hard time with this because they remove any element of human free-will, but I do not, because God kept his promise and let his people not accept it. We also saw that the Yahwist used an older tradition (the poem of Num 21:27-30) to deflect Moabite claims (see the Mesha stele) that they stole the land from them. One great example of this comes from 2 Kings 3, even if it's a little complicated because the scribes seem to have covered up Chemosh's name in later manuscripts. So, the question of the kings was, "what will God do if we fight Moab." God promise to give Israel total victory over Moab if they fought. Scholars say that YHWH is most likely derived from the Hebrew verb hayah, which means "to be.". Just like many of the other verses we have looked at, the translators have "fixed" this text so that it better fits with the monotheistic view. Chemosh Beat Yahweh in a Battle Would you believe that sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other deities or armies in the Bible? The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. Citing this older poem allows the Yahwist to counter the claims made in the Mesha stele (below) by claiming that the Israelites under Omri took the land from the Amorites not the Moabites. You shall conquer every fortified city and every choice city; every good tree you shall fell, all springs of water you shall stop up, and every good piece of land you shall ruin with stones., It doesn't say, "Yahweh will fight with you", or "you will be mostly victorious. The 6th century Priestly Tradition (Num 33:41-49). This does not seem likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail over the Moabites and it is not suggested in the text. Information on Chemosh is scarce, although archaeology and text can render a clearer picture of the deity. Do you think the Aranid priesthood had control of the temples in Samaria (Israel) before Assyria destroyed it, and only reappeared during the Babylonian exile? (Gen 14:22, 17:1, 21:33; Ex 6:2-3; Ps 82:1 vs Deut 32:8-9; Ps 29:1, 89:6-8), The early Yahwist tradition identifies the borders of Moab as the land between the Wadi Zered and the Arnon river, wherein the city of Ar lied. The vassalage had existed since the reign of David (2 Samuel 8:2), but the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab. As Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi raises a contradiction: It is written concerning the Jewish people: You have not walked in My statutes, neither have you kept My ordinances; nor have you done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 5:7), and it is also written: You have done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 11:12). God Had a Wife? If he is all-good, why doesn't he avail himself of these means? Smith says When Naaman begged a little earth that he might make a Yahweh-sanctuary in Damascus, how easy it would have been for Elisha to instruct him that the whole earth is Yahweh's and that the soil of Damascus is as truly his as the soil of Palestine. Hadad | Kothar | Melqart | Mot | Moloch | The origin of the Israelite God YHWH has long been debated with the minimal references to the name in early inscriptions. Privacy Policy. Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. Instead, it makes sense that it was the Moabite deity who would respond to a Moabite human sacrifice and fight against the Israelite military coalition. The Mesha Stele contains the earliest mention of YHVH, the God of the Israelites, outside of the Bible. Chemosh and Yahweh were cut from the same dusty, desert cloth as all the other blood-drinking gods of the ancient Semites, and the idea of human sacrifice was never far from their superstitious minds. So, too, of all the Greek gods, Zeus comes to . 48:45-46), regards the Moabites as the children of Chemosh, and also calls them "the people of Chemosh." God delivered Moab into their hands to do whatever they wanted with it, and what they decided to do is to leave it before getting the job done. Yahweh admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king's son as a human sacrifice. This is not only implied in the Mesha stele, but also in a couple of biblical passages as well. Of course, we cannot overlook the fact of . Third, Mesha demonstrated his success in the region by subordinating deities and religious materials foreign to Moab before Chemosh: "I took from thence the vessels of Yahweh and dragged them before Chemosh" (Gibson 1971, No. (Num 13:26 vs Num 20:1, 27:14, 33:36; Deut 32:51), #313. Was Yahweh one of the Moloch Gods? The meaning of the name Chemosh is not understood, though some scholars believe it may have meant "destroyer" or "subduer." Chemosh was also seen as a fish-god. The NASB/ESB translation of the Bible describes how the Moabite king Mesha sacrifices his son to his god Chemosh. If Israel had pressed forward, they would've destroyed Moab. Yahweh admits that Chemosh is more powerful than Yahweh when Chemosh receives the Moabite king's son as a human sacrifice. If you look at the events of the story, when Israel fought Moab, they crushed it in almost comedically epic and glorious fashion, but when the king sacrificed his son on the wall, the Israelites became afraid and stopped fighting. Of all the Molochs, Jehovah becomes supreme, and the other Molochs are forgotten, lost for ever; he is the God of gods. His presence in the Old Testament world was well known, as his cult was imported to Jerusalem by King Solomon (1 Kings 11:7). This would obviously not be true, as Chemosh is not remotely equal to Yahweh. Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol, with the most inhuman rites. They added a lot to the discussions and my own understanding. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/deuteronomy-328-9/, Literary and conceptual parallels discovered in the literature of Ugarit, however, have provided a more coherent explanation for the number seventy in Deuteronomy 32:8 and have furnished support for textual scholars who argue against the "sons of Israel" reading. Its a theological narrative construct meant to make sense and explain the world they live in. Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites. As such, some have hypothesized that the God YHWH originated in Northern Israel, while . in Comparative Literature; B.A. Israelites engaged in human sacrifice as late as the time of the prophet Jeremiah, who says: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech, though I never commanded it, nor did it enter my mind." Subscribe now to get a private link for listening in your favorite podcast player or listen in the Substack app. It is believed that he lived on Mount Saphon, close to the ancient Syrian city of Ugarit. God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." Gods of Egypt are Elohim. I often get asked why if Im not a believer, do I study these texts? 5 The gods know nothing, they understand nothing. Press J to jump to the feed. Meet Isaac in the Bible: Abraham's Miracle Son, The Story of Abraham and Isaac Bible Study Guide, A Profile of Abraham of the Jewish Nation, Meet Adam: The First Man and Father of the Human Race, 10 Commandments Bible Study: Honoring Your Parents, Parting the Red Sea Bible Story Study Guide. This apparently causes the defeat of Israel and their allied armies: 2 Kings 3:27, This is an example of failed prophecy in the Bible. It was for this crime that Solomon's kingdom was divided in the days of his son Rehoboam, and the northern kingdom given to the care of Jeroboam I, who had been commissioned for this role by the prophet Ahijah. Rather we see a much larger portraitof humanity, a whole world of many cultures, if I may dare, all human species. The Elohim of Abraham and the Elohim of Nahhor, they will judge between us, the Elohim of their father, and Jacob swore with the fear of his father Isaac. Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 Listen now (19 min) | Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. 16, ln. In Genesis we find the only passage in the Bible alluding to this ancient practice. In this monumental inscription, several people, places, and events of the Bible were definitively confirmed, including King Mesha of Moab, King Omri of Israel, King David, a reference to Yahweh as the God of Israel, and the successful rebellion of the Moabites against Israel. The Gemara cites a verse concerning the king of Moab: Then he took his eldest son, who should have reigned in his stead, and sacrificed him for a burnt offering upon the wall; and there was great indignation against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land (II Kings 3:27). he even says that israel will get kicked off their land despite being his chosen people. Yahweh would have delivered Israel anyway, without Jephthah's . The ancient practice of child sacrifice found renewed footing with medieval and modern interpretations. The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. Listen to Yahweh vs. Chemosh: Battle of the Hebrew War Gods in II Kings 3:26 from First Bible Network. It says, "And a divine wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from him and returned to their own land". And like Israelite scribes, other scribes of other cultures also wrote texts that did the exact same thing and perceived the world in the exact same way that our Israelite scribes did but only through the lens of a different deity. compare all religions to the jewish religion. Ba'al | Berith | Chemosh | Dagon | Derceto | How could Yahweh be a good deity if he actively promotes and encourages war? This does not seem likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail over the Moabites. Solomon erected an altar to Chemosh south of the Mount of Olives outside Jerusalem, on the Hill of Corruption. While you have produced a pretty good apologetic as to how Chemosh could seemingly defeat Yahweh, the entire premise of Yahweh craving war is flawed. This involved the destruction of the high place sanctuary built by Solomon. Burton, Judd H. (2021, November 12). So god tolerates human sacrifices and even accepts them, going against his own laws and morals, simply because a group of people no longer up hold his laws? Although not explicit in the Mesha stele, we can likewise imagine that this scribe and his culture would have asserted that contrariwise Chemosh decreed northern Moab to the Moabites. Twitter. Identified verse by verse and explained using the most up-to-date scholarly information about the Bible, its texts, and the men who wrote them by Dr. Steven DiMattei. We know that Yahweh's brother, Chemosh, got the region of the Moabites. He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine (high place) at "Qarcho. In 2 Kings 3:27, Yahweh is defeated by another god, Chemosh. Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. . (Ex 32:27-28 vs Ex 32:35 vs Ex 32:34), #116. [1], Some thing that it was the king of Edom's son, not Mesha's own son, that was sacrificed but there is little support for that in the text. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land. The question, although understandable, is a bit odd nonetheless because it is founded on my interlocutors predispositions and assumptions. ", "I made this high place for Chemosh in Qarcho because he has saved me from all kings, and because he has shown me to all my enemies. But then we changed and we were blessed by God and beat them back. The Very First Bible: (Deut 2:24, 31). Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. Probe Apologist Rick Wade expands on his essay God and the Canaanites, exploring critics' charge that OT warfare means God is brutal and vengeful. What is the punishment for the Golden Calf incident: the Levites kill 3,000 men OR Yahweh struck them down OR Yahweh will strike them down on the day that he takes account? 24Will you not take what your god Chemosh gives you? See, The children of Lot dispossessed the Emim, thereby rightfully possessing the land of Moab as decreed to them by Yahweh, The children of Esau dispossessed the Horites, thereby rightfully possessing the land of Edom as decreed to them by Yahweh, The children of Ammon dispossessed the Zamzummim, thereby rightfully possessing the land of Ammon as decreed to them by Yahweh. We already saw how the Deuteronomist prepared its readers for this rightful taking of the promised land by creating and presenting precedents: This was all to set up the conquering and dispossession of the indigenous peoples of the land of Canaan and some of Transjordan as promised to the children of Jacob by Yahweh, and this dispossession begins with the taking of northern Moab from Sihon. Elsewhere, however, the Moabites are seen as closely related to the Israelites, as descendants of Abraham's nephew Lot. The Moabite King Mesha dedicated a high place to Chemosh which contained a well-preserved inscription on the so-called Moabite Stone, describing Chemosh's involvement in Mesha's battles against the descendants of the Israelite kings Omri and Ahab. They represented the fierce, inescapable, and often consuming heat of the summer sun (a necessary but deadly element in life; analogs may be found in Aztec sun worship). The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land." we can see this in the story of Elijah vs the Baal worshipers, 1 Kings 18:24 Then you call on the name of your gods (Eloheychem), and I will call on the name of the LORD (YHVH). What is the source of your belief, do you think? So he could be more powerful? In similar fashion, both Deuteronomy and the Mesha stele (as well as Judges 11:24) claim that Moab was land divinely decreed to its people: the former claiming Yahweh decreed it to the children of Lot, the latter claiming that Chemosh decreed it to the Moabites. You yourself paraphrased and said that the text is saying //I will fight for you and you will throw down every city.//, Thus says Yahweh, Elisha says, This is only a trifle in the sight of Yahweh, for he will also hand Moab over to you. As noted in the footnotes of the NET bible: [2]. their gods are all part of a pantheon of wars between gods where as The G-d of Israel created the mythologies so any battle that the jews lost was not him losing but part of his world. Stele contains the earliest mention of YHVH, the god of the NET:... The god of the Bible describes how the Moabite king Mesha sacrifices his son to his god, to he. 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His successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a shrine. He even says that Israel will get kicked off their land despite his! Follow your favorite podcast player or listen in the Old Testament world was well known, as descendants Abraham... Also calls them `` the language is so vague that a clear translation eluded... Does not seem likely since Jehovah had promised Israel would prevail over Moabites. So now he confused Yahweh with Chemosh and Molech in the previous section so! Good deity if he actively promotes and encourages War armies in the position Asthar. Asherah and Baal to Astarte promised Israel would prevail over the Moabites as the children of Chemosh ''! I often get asked why if Im not a believer, do you think, do think! The Greek gods, Zeus comes to sometimes Yahweh actually loses to other or. I wonder how El Elyon divided up the earth among Yahweh 's sixty-nine brothers you not what. Or nations to subjugate them allowing neighboring tribes or nations to subjugate them a private link listening... Contains the earliest mention of YHVH, the god YHWH originated in Northern,.